We introduce this space as a forum in which TF readers can voice and exchange their opinions, concerns and kudos about life in Florence and Italy. E-mail your letters to the editor, essays and opinion pieces to inbox@theflorentine.net and we will publish them, depending on available space, in this new column, Editorials and Opinions.
Florence: all fun and drinks?
The volume and quality of reader responses to ‘Florence: all fun and drinks?’ by Brenda Dionisi (TF 123) have been remarkable. Here we share excerpts from a selection of letters and comments. We invite our readers to continue to discuss this issue. E-mail us at inbox@theflorentine.net with your comments and we may use them in follow-up articles.
American student drinking in Florence: Looking through the wrong end of the telescope
by Robert Nordvall
Why do some students drink to excess in Florence (or Rome, Berlin, Madrid, etc.). Because this is the social life they already know. If a group of Italian students goes abroad to study, they almost always congregate together, speak only Italian, and eat Italian food. This is the life they already know and with which they are comfortable.
So the excess drinking of some has nothing to do with Florence, Italy or students being abroad rather than at home. It doesn’t start here, and it is not going to end here. It is a growing problem too among Italian youth. One can hope that this is not another example of something bad (like professional wrestling on TV) migrating from the USA to Italy.
Obviously colleges and universities in the USA have been struggling with this problem for a long time. So they are the place to look for strategies. I don’t think there are solutions. One thing is clear: warning students about the dangers of alcohol, drugs, cigarettes, driving too fast, or too much use of a tanning salon is a waste of time. Students feel impervious to such dangers.
When a practice become highly diffuse, the idea of ‘get tough, throw them all out of school!’ is no longer feasible.
One alternative strategy is being tried in the USA. Surveys show that students in general substantially overestimate the amount of drinking among their peers. This is not surprising; the outrageous behavior by some drunken students makes a strong impression. So an attempt is made to circulate the true figures on student drinking… The idea is to stop the idea that one has to drink a lot to be popular and that everybody is doing it. The information broadcast to students also points out that the most successful students academically drink much less than their peers. It’s an attempt to shift the student culture.
Why would someone purposely drink so much that they threw up? Why would some others see this as laudable behavior? The answers to such questions are almost impossible for the older generation. Perhaps when they were younger, they did things that were inexplicable to their elders. Binge drinking represents a change in the youth culture that is so widespread that colleges and universities are not able to abolish it. Some strategies, such as distribution information about true drinking patterns may help, but there is no recipe for radical change. At best there are a number of simple ideas that may moderate the behavior.
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Dear Ms. Brenda Dionisi,
I wanted to thank you for writing the article about the issue of excessive partying and drinking by students in Florence, as it has become the focal point of my professional career in the student travel industry. At the end of your article, you requested that your readers provide constructive solutions and alternatives. I would like to share my own thoughts on this matter now, but also speak with you directly about the issue and my ideas on how to move forward.
First, let me introduce myself: I am the founder and managing director of SnoworSand, an American-based travel company in Florence dedicated to providing safe, responsible and culturally-focused travel options for American students. Long before the news media began chronicling this problem, I realized that this reckless and seemingly culturally-insensitive party culture was damaging the image of Americans abroad as well as their relationship with Florentines.
While you highlighted that many bars promote drink nights for Americans, you didn’t discuss how the student travel industry does the same. Just like the many bars and night clubs in Florence, these travel companies promote booze cruises, pub crawls and shot nights as a main selling point for their American customers, who then take the party on the road to other destinations around Europe like Corfu, Greece and Interlaken, Switzerland.
You mentioned in the article that universities represent a major player in resolving this issue. SnoworSand recognized this long ago and partnered with universities such as Syracuse and Lorenzo de’ Medici, who now endorse us as their preferred travel provider. That’s because we provide students with trips focused on local people and culture, not partying and drinking. We have aligned our mission and goals with universities and are dedicated to helping to solve this problem. We have not only met with the American consulate, but we are looking to begin work with other like-minded organizations like Florence Live, which puts together artistic and cultural events for students, as well as the Association of Scholars at the American Universities in Italy (ASAUI), which is coalition of academic leaders in Florence dedicated to resolving this issue.
My experience working directly with students for two years is that providing late night hang-outs or study spaces will do little to stop them from partying. Bars, night clubs and travel companies have become experts at promoting to the students, “manufacturing” demand for the party atmosphere. Unless universities can find ways to curb this advertising or involve themselves directly in providing alternatives as Stanford University has done, it will be difficult to stop this trend.
I believe that by organizing a round table discussion with the major players in this issue – university directors, media representatives, local organizations and business – we can take a positive step toward allying the various stakeholders and resolving this issue. The bars and travel companies are allied in these efforts, and in order to combat the problem, so must the other side.
Again, I would appreciate the chance to speak with you about this topic, and show that there are other are a variety of other organizations directly ‘targeting’ the student population that have their best interest in mind. I hope to hear from you soon, and thank you for your time.
Best,
Charles Stevenson
Managing Director
SnoworSand
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Response to ‘Florence: all fun and drinks?’ (notes from Lynn Weichmann, co-president of the Tuscan-American Association)
Without question and unfortunately, the actions of a ‘few’ usually colour the image of the many…not just for American students here, but also for example, the commonly held image of the Muslim community here and even in the US. ‘one rotten apple spoils the barrel’
It would be not only interesting but also important to know from US college programs (particularly those which have made public statements with you (Stanford and Syracuse), but also programs such as Harding University etc) how many of their students have been involved with ‘incidents of abuse and behaviour’ over the past five years. Perhaps they (the ones you quote) do have superb and superior programs which mentor and support and integrate their students… very important to be able to quote numbers as well to local press)
Consequences for action – responsibility for behaviour (seeing that all US students here, I believe, are considered adults (voters) by the US even though they can’t drink until 21—- a contradiction and dichotomy, it would seem). One of the values propounded by the US and perhaps missing in the Italian system is ‘meritocracy’ plus the US ‘honour system’. The US programs here keep saying that they do orientation, they explain, and that they try their best to help students ‘integrate’ into life here for the brief time they are ‘residents’. I am certain that this is true for the most part…however – it doesn’t seem to be working for some (many). Therefore (despite the income provided by student participation in programs here), I personally believe that students who come should have all of the above, plus a signed personal declaration in which they pledge to behaviour appropriate to that required by their program and that they recognize that failure to adhere to the rules of conduct will result in termination of their participation in the program, the loss of tuition and the loss of eventual academic credit for their diploma. This should not be a threat, but a reality and commitment of each US program. Too often excuses are given and accepted.
In my experience (third hand I admit) for about 30 years, I have noted that many (most) students here take advantage of ‘this side of the pond’ to have a party, to see and do all that they can (Oktoberfest in Munich, a weekend in Paris and Vienna, a quick trip to Prague). That I can accept as a unique ‘cultural experience’, but being out of town for all weekends and breaks certainly cancels any possibility of ‘local learning’…and this is true of those who live in families but who are ‘out of town’ from Thursday to Monday and also those who find themselves sharing an apartment in a mini US ghetto.
I had a remarkable experience on the 19th of December 2009…stranded at the airport with all flights cancelled, I struck up a conversation with two delightful US students stranded and homebound. We had to wait for three hours to learn what would happen…and we chatted. They were winding up their ‘semester’ (six weeks) in Florence and told me about their experience… wonderful and exceptional. I asked them how many other students in their program had done what they did and had ‘shared Italian life’…answer…’maybe three out of a program of 60′. They confirmed their point of view… the others were here to have fun… and they also said that the drinking abuse problem was rampant (and that ‘pushers’ for the discos etc were recruited both locally (Italian) and among the students.
Alcohol and drugs are a significant problem for US students here, but also and not to minimize, among young, and sometimes very young Italians…a contagious situation. This, too, should be made clear to the Italian local press.
This ‘behavioural’ problem for US students is historic, now rendered acute because of the increment of numbers. Over fifteen years ago, one of my children organized with University of Florence companions, a plan to provide charter bus transportation for US students to a local disco outside the city where they could drink and party as they wished and not ‘invade’ the local Italian venues. Another lived ‘in Centro’ for a year and was distressed, and totally disgusted, by the nightly drunken streetside orgies outside the window (Americans) and the broken glass on the street in the morning…
‘The Ugly American’ is easy to tag and the title easy to abuse… for all those who don’t fit the category, the US programs here have an obligation to defend and support… for those who fit the description, the programs have a total obligation to remove them and to teach them that there are ‘consequences for actions’.
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From TF’s Fan Page on Facebook at
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Posted by Alexandra Korey
It makes me sad to see that the American universities are getting bad press for the drinking issue. However, I was a study abroad student, and then I was their professor, and have to say that these students make up the ‘vast majority’ and not ‘vast minority’ stated in the article. They may be volunteering or interning, but they’re also drinking (and that doesn’t mean that they’re all obnoxious, necessarily), and they are unlikely to stop. What to do about it? Wish I knew….
Posted by Nina Peći
The problem starts at home, not here. Stop limiting alcohol consumption until age 21 and it wouldn’t be such a big deal once they got here. Also, teach them to drink responsibly: teach them about wine and give them a sommelier course… oh I forgot, you can’t… they’re all under 21!
Posted by Kenneth Peter Scott
As a teacher here in Florence for the past 10 years, I can only make a sad comparison with my past students from Sweden,Iceland,Europe,the middle East and South America,to the average “American” student.They do treat as a vacation and sadly all their memories will be through a haze of alcohol and fuzzy digital images–but “Hey I just did Florence” errrrrrrrrrrrrrr…
Posted by Suzi Jenkins
I am convinced that colonial ex-empire Britain is more than responsible for many of the world’s current problems … including alcohol abuse. Nina is surely right; in Britain where pub-measures, massive taxation & “opening-hours” still rule, teenage alcohol abuse reigns supreme. It’s another one of those things that we are really really good at…
Posted by Kimberly Virzi
Live in a way that is ethically responsible. Try to make a difference in this world and contribute to the higher good. You’ll find it gives more meaning to your life and it’s a great antidote to boredom. There is always so much to be done : By Steve Jobs
Posted by Janelle Alexander
brava, Nina! It is that the taboo is suddenly lifted and students cannot handle it as they have not been educated about alcohol properly..archaic. As always, education is the best answer.
Posted by Sandro Rosseti
@Alexandra K. (sorry for the delay…) The article on the Corriere Fiorentino referred to pub crawling, and more in general to students so drunk to become more than obnoxious, or to end up in huge problems (like fights, or abuse or showing up in class drunk the morning after etc). Out of my experience, I’d keep the position that the numbers make … this group a ‘vast minority’, compared to the total, huge number of american (and not only American) students in town. Then, I agree with you, a ‘vast majority’ go out and drink. I do not condone this, but at the same time think there is very little one can do about it. Education is important, there are a lot of campaigns about Il Bere Responsabile, but the result are not ideal. The major of Rome, Mr Alemanno, recently prohibited pub crawling: would this work? I doubt, but let’s see… http://roma.corriere.it/roma/notizie/cronaca/10_maggio_25/allarme-movida-ordinanze-centro-storico-1703082428657.shtml
